00:03:00 #startmeeting 00:03:01 #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 00:03:01 #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:03:11 oooh, that's cool 00:03:20 Roll Call 00:03:23 * Sparks is here 00:03:25 * radsy is here 00:04:25 * jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z 00:05:23 * ianweller is sorta kind here maybe 00:05:30 * rudi is here 00:05:31 jjmcd: me too 00:05:48 Japanese Game Show? 00:06:03 jjmcd: Yes 00:06:08 ;-) 00:07:11 * kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves 00:07:17 sure! 00:07:53 Okay, let's get started... 00:07:59 #topic Meeting procedures 00:08:12 You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes. Fedbot is a new bot that automates some channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well. You can read more about this bot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:08:17 * quaid is here now 00:08:31 To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands: 00:08:34 info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be logged in the minutes. 00:08:37 action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. (nicknames are case-sensitive) 00:08:40 idea - Add an idea to the minutes. 00:08:43 help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. (Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot) 00:08:45 link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected. 00:08:50 All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea). 00:08:51 * Sparks pauses for any query... 00:09:08 what does the result look like? 00:09:13 * zoglesby is here 00:09:14 I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff 00:09:31 * nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 00:09:38 quaid: I don't know. I guess we'll see 00:09:41 ah, Ok 00:09:51 output looks like: http://fedorapeople.org/~kevin/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-12-17.01.html 00:09:58 so it's somewhat data capture for now? we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet? 00:10:13 ah! 00:10:22 Hmmm... 00:10:34 Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to. 00:10:43 ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation 00:11:25 not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;) 00:11:41 if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on. 00:11:54 nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour. 00:12:03 sounds good. ;) 00:12:54 Okay... 00:12:57 I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol) for our meetings. I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time. 00:13:02 Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions: 00:13:04 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt 00:13:07 2. If you have a question, type "?" 00:13:10 3. If you need to speak, type "!" 00:13:12 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof" 00:13:14 Any questions or comments? 00:13:17 5. If you agree, type "+1" 00:13:27 hmmm 00:13:36 I won't say no personally, but 00:13:47 I've found those to be most helpful where the common language 00:13:57 is not the first language spoken of participants. 00:14:09 so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers 00:14:33 but it does interrupt flow 00:14:34 00:14:50 +1 00:15:07 Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not. 00:15:18 +1 00:15:33 (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid) 00:15:51 Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah 00:15:58 it's a kindness 00:16:19 I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are typing something 00:18:07 Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff? 00:18:17 no 00:18:30 no 00:18:32 ^Z 00:18:45 #topic [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report 00:18:57 We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson. We had a couple of participants that remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson. 00:19:18 Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD. 00:19:39 Has everyone had a change to look over the notes? 00:19:49 And does anyone have any questions about the FAD? 00:20:02 ? 00:20:06 jjmcd: Yes 00:20:24 Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken? 00:21:17 jjmcd: Not as of yet. But we should. If you want to take something then go for it. 00:21:28 ! 00:21:44 Oh I see this going badly 00:21:47 jjmcd: yes? 00:21:54 We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners 00:22:06 +1 00:22:11 eof 00:22:13 +1 00:22:17 ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police a bit :) 00:22:26 Yes... 00:22:35 I guess that's kinda what I meant. 00:22:38 quaid: Thank you 00:22:40 ! 00:22:52 Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me 00:22:59 :) 00:23:36 jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done. 00:23:47 ? 00:23:56 Greetings and salutations. 00:24:02 Yes Zach 00:24:14 Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD? 00:24:41 zoglesby: Kinda... I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help. 00:24:46 I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while 00:24:57 ok 00:24:57 eof 00:24:58 zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line 00:25:52 Anything else for the FAD? 00:26:24 #topic [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] 00:26:44 jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic? 00:27:00 Well I think we covered a lot Sunday 00:27:15 We have some new ideas on RN's 00:27:34 Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l 00:28:02 We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there) 00:28:23 Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-)) 00:28:31 :) 00:28:37 :D 00:28:39 Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them 00:28:53 I think we have some really good plans tho 00:29:05 but we need to share them more widely before implementing 00:29:17 Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs 00:29:22 eof 00:29:24 URQs? 00:29:34 User Requirements 00:29:37 Ahh 00:29:53 <---- requirements geek 00:30:00 I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations... 00:30:26 by different users. One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while... 00:30:29 Yes. I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit 00:30:42 the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info. 00:30:48 but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone 00:30:49 Yes 00:31:05 ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that 00:31:14 I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more. 00:31:19 as in the example I pointed to somewhere 00:32:11 wait 00:32:26 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Test_of_table_RNs 00:32:40 Did everyone get a look at that? 00:33:05 highlight a few biggies and list all the rest 00:33:09 I didn't... Have now 00:33:20 reduces translation and increases the data 00:33:38 Good combinations 00:33:40 THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there 00:34:22 Needless to say, the table is produced by a script 00:34:35 Well, program 00:35:36 Cool 00:36:13 Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion? 00:36:15 I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list 00:36:39 * jjmcd will blog on ppl issues 00:36:53 Excellent. 00:37:05 Okay.... moving on... 00:37:10 #topic Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 00:37:18 quaid: Do you have an update for us? 00:37:18 ok 00:37:32 I may cover what was said last week, but ... 00:38:02 we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans. 00:38:09 and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b? 00:38:37 yes, I do 00:38:58 #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b 00:39:11 ? 00:39:30 When do you think we'll be able to change over? ETA? 00:39:34 well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :) 00:39:49 no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow 00:40:00 #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing 00:40:30 so, really ... no change from last week afair :/ 00:40:43 Okay... At least we are up to date. 00:41:13 Anyone have anything else? 00:41:44 thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff 00:41:45 #topic [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] 00:42:44 Okay... I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda... 00:42:55 but I haven't really had time to look at it... 00:43:05 so I don't have anything to say about it, yet. 00:43:22 Would anyone like to say anything about it? 00:43:25 ? 00:43:38 Go ahead Zach. 00:43:58 I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time? 00:44:24 Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result. 00:44:45 * jjmcd had similar concerns 00:45:12 #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request. 00:45:52 eof 00:46:17 Anyone else? 00:46:31 I can see some benefit from shared development 00:46:54 and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic 00:47:01 eof 00:47:30 Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting... 00:47:41 I'll try to get more information for next week. 00:47:45 Anyone else? 00:48:04 #topic [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq 00:48:22 Is ke4qqq here tonight? 00:48:57 I guess not. 00:49:05 ? 00:49:12 So I think all the modules have been packaged, now. 00:49:22 How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left? 00:49:33 oh i can read! 00:49:54 One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on. 00:50:16 there's no such thing as a "rejected" package 00:50:17 zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left. Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ. 00:50:18 just one that isn't approved yet 00:50:25 unless it's in ForbiddenItems 00:50:29 * ianweller heads back out 00:50:30 Yeah... what he said. 00:50:52 what was the license? 00:51:00 CC-BY-SA 2.5 00:51:26 Which is not compatible with GPL 00:51:59 did anyone contact the dev yet? 00:52:29 This project is being planned to be online within 60 days. We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM. 00:52:49 zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact. 00:53:25 Anyone have any other questions or comments? 00:53:48 #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes 00:53:57 Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while... 00:54:40 I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working 00:54:53 this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot 00:55:01 loose to do some of our work for us. 00:55:13 Anyone have any questions or comments? 00:56:17 #topic Calendar 00:56:59 Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12. 00:57:36 I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution... 00:57:48 until we get our calendaring solution. 00:58:15 #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12.ics 00:58:15 +1 00:58:21 easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with: 00:58:32 1) name of task (using action words/verbs) 00:58:35 2) start date 00:58:39 3) how many days it takes 00:58:46 4) dependency on other tasks 00:59:14 Cool! 00:59:24 anyone have any questions or comments? 00:59:42 Thanks poelcat 00:59:43 * poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart 00:59:58 will target fri or monday 01:00:13 poelcat: That will be great. 01:00:41 #topic All other business 01:00:54 Okay, due to the hour... Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? 01:01:05 ! 01:01:21 radsy: Go ahead 01:01:22 #link http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/html-single/#chap-Managing_Confined_Services-Squid_Caching_Proxy is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look 01:01:47 eof 01:01:58 radsy: Very cool. Do you need any additional resources? 01:02:05 no 01:02:32 Okay, anyone else? 01:02:48 I think I'll take this time to speak up 01:02:55 perspectival: Go ahead 01:03:13 I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12 01:03:21 there is a new branch in svn 01:03:47 unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it 01:04:17 howdy 01:04:21 perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide? 01:04:48 So Greetings! 01:04:49 the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide 01:05:09 perspectival: Excellent! Do you need any resources? 01:05:29 I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind 01:05:40 still figuring out the way forward ;-) 01:05:50 perspectival: No problem! 01:05:51 I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though 01:06:06 am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc. 01:06:46 01:06:57 Okay. 01:07:00 Anyone else? 01:08:08 Okay, I'm calling it a night then... 01:08:08 5 01:08:11 4 01:08:16 3 01:08:20 2 01:08:24 1 01:08:31 #endmeeting