16:33:00 <nirik> #startmeeting
16:33:14 <nirik> #meetingtopic IRC Support SIG meeting
16:33:28 <nirik> Hello everyone. Who all is here for the meeting?
16:33:37 <EvilBob> Blah
16:33:44 <zcat> Blargh
16:33:48 * fenris02 waves
16:34:02 * thomasj 
16:34:37 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:35:26 <Southern_Gentlem> cool a bot to record the meetings
16:35:41 <nirik> yeah, trying out a meeting plugin. :)
16:35:50 <nirik> will see how well it works out. ;)
16:36:36 <nirik> I guess we can go ahead and get started.
16:36:42 <nirik> #topic F11 release
16:37:11 <nirik> Not sure what else we can do for release prep. I should be around for release day now.
16:37:51 <thomasj> Having enough baldrian around
16:38:04 <EvilBob> flush the toilet before the release
16:38:27 <nirik> we should check over any docs that need updating or links in shortcuts.
16:38:30 <Southern_Gentlem> i will be here as will
16:38:58 <Southern_Gentlem> i dont think any of this groups docs stated a release
16:39:13 <Southern_Gentlem> ALL please read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Maximizing_Support_from_IRC
16:39:40 <fenris02> Southern_Gentlem, mobile is missing from that list of links at the top
16:39:48 * linuxguru is here , sorry late
16:39:49 * thomasj has to update the ati page on fedorasolved about the 2.6.29 kernel issue.
16:39:50 <nirik> I was thinking also we could try and shunt the general 'congrats' 'hurray' 'fedora rocks' to #fedora-social?
16:40:09 <fenris02> might want to add dpaste to the paste group
16:40:17 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  i agree but lets see how much of it we get
16:40:35 <EvilBob> simple 5 minute kick/ban for "fedora rocks" with a note, "we know"
16:40:35 <Southern_Gentlem> f11 is going to be a huge success or a huge lead balloon
16:40:42 <linuxguru> are we planning on a release-party channel? :-P
16:40:56 <nirik> I think it will be a nice release, but then I like all of them. ;)
16:40:59 <EvilBob> linuxguru: it is called #Fedora-Social
16:41:01 <Southern_Gentlem> linuxguru,  go for it
16:41:02 <fenris02> linuxguru, would they be handing out advil?
16:41:04 <nirik> linuxguru: I was thinking we could use social for that.
16:41:24 <linuxguru> nirik, i think we should have a separate release-party channel :)
16:41:32 <Southern_Gentlem> linuxguru,  go for it
16:41:35 <EvilBob> linuxguru: I disagree
16:41:39 <linuxguru> -social has its own significance
16:41:45 <EvilBob> linuxguru: it just adds to confusion
16:41:59 <EvilBob> is'nt a party social?
16:42:05 <thomasj> depends
16:42:06 <nirik> it's another channel to police and decide when to drop, etc.
16:42:30 <linuxguru> EvilBob, okies
16:42:32 <EvilBob> A headache for minimum benefit
16:43:08 <nirik> yeah, I would suggest lets try social this time, and if it doesn't work out, we can do a seperate channel next release?
16:43:33 * linuxguru sends party hats for every -social members for now, then ;)
16:43:43 <kc8hfi_> maybe it'll give us new people to show the ways of baconz
16:43:49 <nirik> we can do some blog posts/etc to hype that up if you want. ;)
16:44:31 <nirik> #info Fedora 11 release party will be in #fedora-social on irc.freenode.net
16:44:44 <EvilBob> Mmmm a bacon blog
16:44:46 <nirik> ok, anything else on release topics?
16:45:00 <Southern_Gentlem> come on tuesday
16:45:24 <nirik> ok, moving on then if no one has anything else on release...
16:45:40 <nirik> #topic Weekly Stats
16:45:56 <nirik> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as usual.
16:46:07 <nirik> also, note that the channel is at an all time high right now.
16:46:12 <EvilBob> I still think flushing the channel is a good idea
16:46:41 <nirik> EvilBob: it's a thought. On the plus side it might get more people to realize they are there and become more active, or at least notice the channel more.
16:46:55 <EvilBob> yup
16:47:08 <nirik> on the minus side it will annoy/freak out people.
16:47:33 <EvilBob> it is not with out precedent
16:47:42 <fenris02> announce a maint. hour or somesuch ahead of time then
16:47:49 <EvilBob> IIRC it was done for F7 or F8
16:48:04 <EvilBob> fenris02: +1
16:48:05 <kc8hfi_> the positives may outweigh the negatives in flushing the channel in this case though
16:48:11 <nirik> I think around release is not a good time though.
16:48:17 <thomasj> +1
16:48:17 <nirik> unless we do it before then.
16:48:22 <fenris02> sunday then
16:48:35 <EvilBob> nirik: the hour before would be perfect
16:49:01 <nirik> I guess it could even be just a minute... just long enough to cause autorejoins to fail. Or could it even be less?
16:49:05 <EvilBob> if the release is Tuesday then Monday would be the earliest IMO
16:49:07 <Southern_Gentlem> -0
16:49:27 <nirik> hour before is bad. Hype is at a high and channel should be available.
16:49:32 <EvilBob> nirik: 4 or 5 minutes would be OK I would think
16:49:44 <nirik> I think it should be in a quiet time when the channel isn't that active anyhow.
16:49:50 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  8am edt
16:50:03 <fenris02> it's *dead* a few hours before that
16:50:06 <Southern_Gentlem> 2 hours before the release
16:50:12 <fenris02> there's a 2hr gap of silence
16:50:13 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: I like that idea
16:50:26 <EvilBob> just for a couple minutes
16:50:34 * nirik doesn't really feel too strongly about it I guess.
16:50:54 <nirik> we should add it to the topic and advertise it some however.
16:50:55 <fenris02> 5-6 according to the weekly stats page
16:51:02 <zcat> +0.07
16:51:06 <Southern_Gentlem> yes
16:51:21 <thomasj> *IF* people have a auto-rejoin, the rejoin works 5 minutes later as well.
16:51:28 <nirik> ok, someone want to take lead on this? a blo post or two would be good too.
16:51:39 <nirik> (blog rather)
16:51:51 <Southern_Gentlem> no
16:51:58 <EvilBob> I will blog about it, 8AM Tuesday for 10 Minutes?
16:52:09 <Southern_Gentlem> better to ask forgiveness than permission
16:52:14 <EvilBob> my re-join keeps trying forever
16:52:17 <nirik> I think less. 2min? or even 1? if autorejoin works after that it would anyhow.
16:52:35 <nirik> so you just want to do it to drop those without autorejoin
16:52:40 <mharris> my rejoin will continue to the end of time
16:52:49 <nirik> yeah, many are that way I think.
16:53:00 <thomasj> So there's no real sense..
16:53:01 <EvilBob> Just go for 5 minutes
16:53:02 <mharris> What does flushing the channel gain though?
16:53:18 <mharris> reduced load on the ircd?  WHy would we care about that? ;)
16:53:21 <fenris02> whinge++  ... and remove a few deadbeats
16:53:33 <Southern_Gentlem> shows who is really there for a reason
16:53:37 <nirik> a more real idea of how many people are interested in being there I guess.
16:53:38 <thomasj> nothing except a lot of mad people, or big question marks over some heads..
16:53:57 <EvilBob> nirik: that is my purpose
16:54:00 <mharris> Yeah, I'm thinking it'd just upset a bunch of people for no real gain
16:54:11 <Southern_Gentlem> and remember its all BOb's fault LOL
16:54:26 <EvilBob> if they get upset over this they have other issues
16:54:27 <MadBus> mharris, I agree
16:54:43 <EvilBob> and we know that anyhow
16:54:49 <MadBus> it'll be tense enough with the new release
16:54:52 <Southern_Gentlem> mharris,  and those people dont post in the channel any other time
16:55:06 <fenris02> day before or sunday.  pick the slowest hour.
16:55:09 <kc8hfi_> i was leaning towards showing who is really there for a good reason, but I see all the other points being made
16:55:12 <mharris> What would a channel flush do that a netsplit would not?
16:55:16 * nirik wonders how many have autorejoin tho. It may just be pointless.
16:55:25 * MadBus thinks lurkers in #Fedora are pretty harmless
16:55:34 <Southern_Gentlem> all of them nirik
16:55:39 <EvilBob> netsplit is not realy a disconnect on most clients
16:55:51 <MadBus> netsplit creates a parallel universe
16:56:00 <nirik> if they all or many do, then it's got no point I fear.
16:56:01 <Southern_Gentlem> i think it is useless because all have autojoin enabled
16:56:09 * nirik doesn't know what the defaults are for most clients off hand.
16:56:10 <EvilBob> the disconnect/reconnect is on the server side
16:56:24 <mharris> Why not test this in some test channel first to see the utility?
16:56:43 <nirik> mharris: we don't have the users there to see what clients will do...
16:56:56 <mharris> sure, #fedora-qa
16:57:10 * fenris02 snickers
16:57:17 <nirik> or devel. :)
16:57:39 <nirik> EvilBob: do you remember what happened the last time this was done? did it have any effect? do you have logs/etc?
16:58:04 <EvilBob> I don't have logs IIRC it easily cut the population in half
16:58:08 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  i dont ever remember this happening
16:58:23 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: yeah Jef did it before a release
16:58:24 <Southern_Gentlem> and i know i didnt do it
16:58:31 * nirik doesn't either, but it may have been before my time.
16:59:28 <mharris> So, /kick *!*@* ?
16:59:42 <EvilBob> mharris: after barring the door
17:00:02 <Southern_Gentlem> and how has the permission to bar the door
17:00:07 <EvilBob> mharris: then open the doors again and let the channel populate
17:00:08 * nirik is leaning toward not bothering. I don't think it's likely to get us enough use.
17:00:15 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: any op I think
17:00:19 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  +1
17:00:27 <thomasj> nirik, +1
17:00:39 <mharris> nirik: +1
17:00:49 <EvilBob> party poopers
17:01:01 <thomasj> :P
17:01:05 <fenris02> sorry EvilBob but i dont see a net-change of anything
17:01:06 <zcat> nirik, +0.93
17:01:07 * kc8hfi_ thinks evilbob just wanted to kick everyone out
17:01:08 <Southern_Gentlem> i can see this now op uses /kick *!*@* and kicks himself out as well and the channel is locked where noone can get in
17:01:31 <EvilBob> But it is great to see some of you flop like a fish from do it to not do it
17:01:53 <thomasj> Southern_Gentlem, except the freenode ninjas
17:02:07 * nirik doesn't feel very strongly either way. Just leaning toward not doing it right now.
17:02:11 <Southern_Gentlem> thomasj,  and i dont think they would be very happy
17:02:16 <thomasj> lol
17:02:17 <EvilBob> nirik says "i don't  think so" and everyone toes that line
17:02:34 <EvilBob> What a riot
17:02:37 <nirik> yeah, lets do it! I changed my mind. ;)
17:02:44 * fenris02 lol
17:02:45 <Southern_Gentlem> -1
17:03:00 <zcat> oh, looks like the flags for all ops were updated sometime. "/cs access #fedora list". anybody can change the channel mode now.
17:03:04 <fenris02> if you're going to do it, pick the slowest hour.
17:03:28 <zcat> (7 weeks ago 'sometime')
17:03:29 <nirik> I guess lets table it and revisit? I would love to have more data on it... ie, did it work/do anything last time?
17:03:36 <thomasj> The channel mode was changeable with our old flags as well.
17:03:51 <EvilBob> table and revisit until after the release is pointless
17:03:52 <MadBus> Southern_Gentlem, I've thought about someone being able to do that but haven't said anything because I don't see any #Fedora ops considering it
17:04:07 <nirik> EvilBob: why?
17:04:09 <thomasj> zcat, assuming youe mean rR
17:04:20 * thomasj looks at his fingers
17:04:21 <EvilBob> the idea is to get some sort of idea who is there for the release
17:04:23 <nirik> assuming there is advantage in doing this, it would be advantagous anytime.
17:04:34 <nirik> EvilBob: less than 6 months to the next one.
17:04:39 <zcat> thomasj, yes. most of us didn't have that before then.
17:04:51 <EvilBob> we see the channel climb before the release every time
17:05:05 <Southern_Gentlem> EvilBob,  if they have autojoin what is it going to prove
17:05:29 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: it is not about proving, it is about getitng an idea
17:05:57 <Southern_Gentlem> \and you get an idea if they autojooin??
17:05:58 <nirik> EvilBob: who was it who did it before? sploeeba?
17:06:07 <EvilBob> nirik: IIRC yes
17:06:21 <nirik> cool. I can ask him if he recalls more on it.
17:06:42 * thomasj still doesn't get the point
17:06:51 <fenris02> more importantly, did it actually change anything
17:06:56 <EvilBob> Board Meeting NOW
17:07:03 <nirik> #action nirik will query Jef about the last time this was done and why and what happened.
17:07:14 <Southern_Gentlem> thomasj, me either other than to get the lurkers stirred up a little
17:07:21 <thomasj> exactly
17:07:27 * MadBus has no problem with lurkers.
17:07:28 <nirik> ok, anything further here, or shall we move on?
17:07:45 <Southern_Gentlem> gtg
17:07:46 <thomasj> move on +1
17:07:51 <nirik> #agreed table the idea of the channel flush and revisit later.
17:08:00 <nirik> #topic open floor
17:08:08 <nirik> anything anyone would like to bring up or note?
17:08:31 * MadBus worries abotu excessive n00b-flaming next week
17:08:36 <nirik> I'm trying out a meeting bot plugin. I will also upload the logs in the regular place in addition. Any feedback on the plugin welcome.
17:08:43 <MadBus> not from ops, but I think it will become an issue
17:08:57 <EvilBob> nirik: can other groups use it?
17:09:16 <EvilBob> nirik: not sure what all it does
17:09:19 <zcat> thomasj, actually, it was the +s. /cs help set
17:09:25 <nirik> EvilBob: it's currently loaded in fedbot. Yes, anyone can in a channel fedbot is in. You can join #fedbot to play with it if you like.
17:09:34 <nirik> docs at http://wiki.debian.org/MeatBot
17:09:56 <EvilBob> nirik: I know some of the groups do not even know how to change the topic
17:10:06 <nirik> yeah.
17:10:27 <nirik> The one thing this needs is some way to upload logs/web pages. Currently it just writes to the local machine the bot is on. ;(
17:10:52 * EvilBob hates looking in the channel and not know who is meeting or what the topic is
17:11:01 * nirik nods.
17:11:18 <nirik> ok, if no one has anything for open floor, we will close out the meeting in a few.
17:11:27 <MadBus> do it!
17:11:44 <nirik> #endmeeting